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Post by captsheetrock on Apr 8, 2007 12:33:04 GMT -5
We seem to spend most of our time argueing about methods
Consider this
A 1/2 ass finsiher coats a house in 3 days, then spends a day and a half sanding it. 4 1/2 days total
A "real" finisher spends 5 days coating the same house and only 1/2 day sanding it. 5 1/2 days total
IMHO the "best" is the guy that makes the most money at the end of the week,, "without" any call-backs or compliants
For some reason, we finishers tend to sit around bashing people that use differant methods than we do, without asking ourselves, If we changed something about our method, Would it make us more money and speed up the job??
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Post by joesmith on Apr 27, 2007 3:03:32 GMT -5
Hey CaptRock
I agree with you. My BS detector goes off the scale when guys start bragging about their work not needing sanding. If you run all the metal in the house fast, leave extra material and don't wipe it all out, you have a tiny boundary line to sand. The no sand crowd typically have hollow nails, hollow metal and they require 6 coats.
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Post by James Fleshner on May 2, 2007 5:17:20 GMT -5
I have to agree with Better on this one. The market in my area is so competitive that one you better be good and two you better be fast, so I am always changing my methods to speed up the job. But i would diffinitly rather sand a little as to have to coat and recoat.
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Post by captsheetrock on May 9, 2007 15:16:19 GMT -5
better,,,
I agree with you on keeping the tools in good repair. Even with my hand knives, I like to keep them filed, gives a cleaner joint, just as keeping the box blades up does. Ever since that dern "flip this house thing" came on TV, All I EVER hear is "how quick can you be done" Like someone else said, today you better be fast AND good. For us, its all about a system, little things, like coming around the top angle on the cieling at a corner bead, WHEN your picking your corners, saves time and saves sanding hassels.
I recently bought a 31/2" angle head for glazing and have found it does a great job on the bevel at the top of the wall board (as oppsosed to a 3" ), I then finish with a 21/2, seems to cover a little better. any thoughts??
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Post by captsheetrock on May 10, 2007 17:14:01 GMT -5
Better,, Tell me about that plow??? Don't you have to come back and glaze after you plow?? I have heard that with a plow you still have to glaze the corner, I glaze the up and down corners with a 31/2 on the mud-runner, seems to me to be quicker than plowing and then glazeing, but I am ALWAYS looking for a better and faster way. I run my up and down corners with the bazooka, but I run my up angles with banjo, I can't whip the tape drag thing yet, and I get a better 3=way corner tape with the banjo. I just use a 31/2 on a pole to glaze the tops cause the banjo leaves enough mud to do that, whereas the bazooka don't, so while my two guys do the tops, I stick the beads with the mud-runner
hope this don't post twice, I wasn't logged in the first time and I guess that post is floating over in cyber space somewhere
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Post by captsheetrock on May 11, 2007 11:29:48 GMT -5
Better The problem I have with the bazooka is the drag, I have rebuilt it which didn't help, I have a DM taper , I just put a new plunger in it, and I think it drags worse than the old one. The guy that taught me the tools uses a TT taper, and it drags the same way, I really can't tell any differance in them(they use the same parts). Since I can run a banjo as fast as a tube, and I use it in the closets as well, I just do the tops with it. Since I bought the CFS tools from apha-tech I have been looking at their taper, one thing I REALLY like about it, is the fact that you can adjust the amount of mud it leaves, that will be a real plus, as the bazooka doesn't leave enough mud for a decent glaze coat. They also claim that it has zero drag, as there is no cable and plunger, that would be the ticket, but everybody claims their tools are perfect,lol I also like the fact that it has its tape cutter on the outside of the tool, I think that will be a great improvement over the tube. I am trying to get up with them about seeing one work before I invest in it, thats a chunk of change for a tool I haven't seen work yet. Have you had any contact with the apla-tech tools??
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Post by captsheetrock on May 12, 2007 17:32:08 GMT -5
better, thanks for the input, its always good to hear how someone else does it. I can run a banjo fast, but I'm 54 and I like not haveing to get on stilts to tape, I love the tube for that, I know that with enough practice I can get the corners with my tube, but I GOT to whine and complain while I learn it,, code of the west,, and all. I'm pretty sure I'll end up with ATechs taper, as the CFS is SO much less effort, its just a matter of learning, hard for an old dawg ya know,, BTW I do tape my 8ft cieling angles with the tube (the one or two a year we get)
I think the 4" head will problly be great, as the differance in the 3 & 3 1/2 is amazing,, especially across the top wall board (over the bevel) the 4 I think would make it even better,
have you tried the one with the wheel in it?? I think its TT that offers it, I often have thought that it would help on the drag of coating the second coat,, haven't had the chance to try one yet tho
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Post by captsheetrock on May 13, 2007 14:30:11 GMT -5
thanks, I may just give it a try,,, ;D
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Post by schatz on May 14, 2007 21:20:16 GMT -5
Same with me. MY crew only uses 1 angle head, the 3" tapetech one, when we glaze, I have them star 2 of the angles, (leaving the top 1). THen after we come back to angle box, we star all 3 and they come out perfectly sq. and we just have to touchup the top angle before primer. And sometimes our angle head likes to leave little edges on the outside. So when we are spotting the screws (by hand) i just go down each side of the angle, just keeps the touchup on the downlow. We dont have to many problems with goobers, and edges because all of our guys are journeymen. After we tape, we 7", 10" the flats/butts and then skim the ceilings with a 12". then just check the butts/flats with a 14" knife and skim them if necessary. When we sand, its just barely a brush on the flats, the butts/metal take a little but more but not too much. We do mostly commercial work on the military base for new housing, and they are SUPER picky, they walk through with 500watt lights and check every inch. Glad i could chirp in, hopefully it helpd someone!
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Post by captsheetrock on May 16, 2007 10:37:23 GMT -5
we use a 3 1/2 angle head to glaze and a 2 1/2 to finsh, that way we don't have the hard edge problem of 2 coats with one angle head. I also keep a 2 inch head on a seperate poll, just for those close doorways, that way we don't fill the 3 1/2 with trash, when we glaze, then when we are picking the corners I run a coat by hand up the wall next to the short doorway, and the corners done. On our butts, we double em with the 7 box, then 10 box, then run em by hand with a 12 (doubled) When we are spotting the nails on tape day, we run the buts with a six and pull it all back off (backskim) that pulls the tape down tight and glazes it, makes a much better butt joint and it doesn't take any extra time, wer'e already swipeing the nails.
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Post by captsheetrock on May 17, 2007 20:39:58 GMT -5
I kinda threw that 6 inch thing in at the end of what I was saying, I meant that after tapeing, while we are spotting the nails first coat, is when we run the butts with the 6,and pull it all back off again, right after tapeing . It really does pull the tape down tight
I'll give that single 12 a shot, I'm always ready to try another method. its easy to get into the habit of putting too much mud on butts, just cause we tend to do that sort of thing
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Post by captsheetrock on May 31, 2007 11:06:40 GMT -5
I know what ya mean,,,, theres alot of debate going on about mesh tape. Makes me want to pull my hair out. It all boils down to people wanting to speed up their process with out buying the tools needed to do it right. Anyone that thinks mesh and hot mud is even remotely equal to the quality of paper and all purpose is fooling themselves. Then they go into explaining how the manufactuor says it is just as good, they don't want to talk about how using the right tools is faster than what they are doing. Like the fact that hot mud doesn't dry any faster than ap, it just sets up, and when you cover still wet hot mud with another layer, of what ever, you are actually slowing the dry time down, making the job longer in the end, not quicker, If mesh and hot mud is really quicker, then how come people with tools, don't use it? nuff said
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Post by captsheetrock on Jun 1, 2007 9:53:14 GMT -5
What I don't understand is why anyone uses mesh at all??? It does absolutely nothing, its a waste of time and money. It doesn't strenghten the joint, doesn't prevent cracks, it does NOTHING. All I can figure out is at least they can say "yeah its got tape, I taped it." We use close to a pallet of mud a week, and a bag of EZ sand usually lasts me a month, so I don't use it too much either. If I'm using metal beads, I'll throw a 1/2 pan of 90 min in a bucket of mud for the first coat on the metal, keeps it from shirinking, other than that I only use if to fill busted places in the rock prior to taping. What surprises me the most is how hostile people get when you point out the properties of mesh. I don't take it personal when hand finishers tell me they can do a better job than my tools can. My policy is, " you only have to show me a better way once, I'll be doing it that way starting tomarrow"
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Post by captsheetrock on Jun 2, 2007 10:19:45 GMT -5
Heres a thought. I have two guys that work for me, they wipe down behind the tools. The only areas I have problem in and constantly battle is these two guys not doing the right thing with knives in their hands, like not knocking in the furrbies on the first nail coat, not wipeing a hard edge off, not pushing on the knife to fill the top little bit of the cornerbead, leaving a gap at the top, etc etc. My point is, if hand finishing is really better than tools, how come the tools don't cause a problem, just finishers with knives in their hands??? A machine always does the same thing everytime, you just can't get that by hand
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